diff --git a/CHANGELOG.md b/CHANGELOG.md
index 878908c2..dee1a374 100644
--- a/CHANGELOG.md
+++ b/CHANGELOG.md
@@ -35,6 +35,28 @@
 
 
 ### API changes on existing features (you may need to change your code)
+* Removed argc/argv parameters from ca_start plugin API function:
+  * You may need to change signatures of your startup in your plugins, eg from:
+  ```
+    int xxx_start(clicon_handle h, int argc, char **argv)
+    {
+	return 0;
+    }
+    static clixon_plugin_api xxx_api = {
+        ...
+	.ca_start = xxx_start,
+  ```
+    to:
+  ```
+    int xxx_start(clicon_handle h)
+    {
+	return 0;
+    }
+    static clixon_plugin_api xxx_api = {
+        ...
+	.ca_start = xxx_start,
+  ```
+    * If you use argv/argc use `clicon_argv_get()` in the init function instead.
 * Changed hash API for better error handling
   * hash_dump, hash_keys, clicon_option_dump have new signatures
 * Renamed `xml_insert` to `xml_wrap_all`.
diff --git a/apps/backend/backend_main.c b/apps/backend/backend_main.c
index f7aa1247..e77cccb2 100644
--- a/apps/backend/backend_main.c
+++ b/apps/backend/backend_main.c
@@ -163,23 +163,6 @@ backend_server_socket(clicon_handle h)
     return ss;
 }
 
-/*! Call plugin_start with -- user options */
-static int
-plugin_start_useroptions(clicon_handle h,
-			 char         *argv0,
-			 int           argc,
-			 char        **argv)
-{
-    char *tmp;
-
-    tmp = *(argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = argv0;
-    if (clixon_plugin_start(h, argc+1, argv-1) < 0) 
-	return -1;
-    *(argv-1) = tmp;
-    return 0;
-}
-
 /*! Load external NACM file
  */
 static int
@@ -726,7 +709,7 @@ main(int    argc,
 	clicon_log(LOG_NOTICE, "%s: %u %s", __PROGRAM__, getpid(), cbuf_get(cbret));
 	
     /* Call backend plugin_start with user -- options */
-    if (plugin_start_useroptions(h, argv0, argc, argv) <0)
+    if (clixon_plugin_start(h) < 0)
 	goto done;
     if (once)
 	goto done;
diff --git a/apps/cli/cli_main.c b/apps/cli/cli_main.c
index cfdabae0..d08449ab 100644
--- a/apps/cli/cli_main.c
+++ b/apps/cli/cli_main.c
@@ -540,12 +540,9 @@ main(int argc, char **argv)
     cligen_match_cgvar_same(1);
 
     /* Call start function in all plugins before we go interactive 
-       Pass all args after the standard options to plugin_start
      */
-    tmp = *(argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = argv0;
-    clixon_plugin_start(h, argc+1, argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = tmp;
+    if (clixon_plugin_start(h) < 0)
+	goto done;
 
     cligen_line_scrolling_set(cli_cligen(h), clicon_option_int(h,"CLICON_CLI_LINESCROLLING"));
     /*! Start CLI history and load from file */
diff --git a/apps/netconf/netconf_main.c b/apps/netconf/netconf_main.c
index fd056411..e338d687 100644
--- a/apps/netconf/netconf_main.c
+++ b/apps/netconf/netconf_main.c
@@ -350,7 +350,6 @@ main(int    argc,
      char **argv)
 {
     int              c;
-    char            *tmp;
     char            *argv0 = argv[0];
     int              quiet = 0;
     clicon_handle    h;
@@ -511,10 +510,8 @@ main(int    argc,
 	    goto done;
 
     /* Call start function is all plugins before we go interactive */
-    tmp = *(argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = argv0;
-    clixon_plugin_start(h, argc+1, argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = tmp;
+    if (clixon_plugin_start(h) < 0)
+	goto done;
 
     if (!quiet)
 	send_hello(h, 1);
diff --git a/apps/restconf/restconf_main.c b/apps/restconf/restconf_main.c
index b4f52141..c08edee9 100644
--- a/apps/restconf/restconf_main.c
+++ b/apps/restconf/restconf_main.c
@@ -520,7 +520,6 @@ main(int    argc,
     char         *path;
     clicon_handle h;
     char         *dir;
-    char	 *tmp;
     int          logdst = CLICON_LOG_SYSLOG;
     yang_spec   *yspec = NULL;
     yang_spec   *yspecfg = NULL; /* For config XXX clixon bug */
@@ -677,12 +676,9 @@ main(int    argc,
 	 yang_spec_parse_module(h, "clixon-rfc5277", NULL, yspec)< 0)
 	 goto done;
     /* Call start function in all plugins before we go interactive 
-       Pass all args after the standard options to plugin_start
      */
-    tmp = *(argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = argv0;
-    clixon_plugin_start(h, argc+1, argv-1);
-    *(argv-1) = tmp;
+     if (clixon_plugin_start(h) < 0)
+	 goto done;
 
     if ((sockpath = clicon_option_str(h, "CLICON_RESTCONF_PATH")) == NULL){
 	clicon_err(OE_CFG, errno, "No CLICON_RESTCONF_PATH in clixon configure file");
diff --git a/example/example_backend.c b/example/example_backend.c
index ba6fa9c1..377b87da 100644
--- a/example/example_backend.c
+++ b/example/example_backend.c
@@ -496,21 +496,12 @@ example_reset(clicon_handle h,
 
 /*! Plugin start.
  * @param[in]  h     Clicon handle
- * @param[in]  argc  Argument vector length (args after -- to backend_main)
- * @param[in]  argv  Argument vector 
  *
  * plugin_start is called once everything has been initialized, right before 
  * the main event loop is entered. 
- * From the cli/backend, command line options can be passed to the 
- * plugins by using "-- <args>" where <args> is any choice of 
- * options specific to the application. These options are passed to the
- * plugin_start function via the argc and argv arguments which
- * can be processed with the standard getopt(3).
  */
 int
-example_start(clicon_handle h,
-	      int           argc,
-	      char        **argv)
+example_start(clicon_handle h)
 {
     return 0;
 }
@@ -555,6 +546,7 @@ clixon_plugin_init(clicon_handle h)
 
     clicon_debug(1, "%s backend", __FUNCTION__);
 
+    /* Get user command-line options (after --) */
     if (clicon_argv_get(h, &argc, &argv) < 0)
 	goto done;
     opterr = 0;
diff --git a/example/example_backend_nacm.c b/example/example_backend_nacm.c
index 8b9d5388..b2058817 100644
--- a/example/example_backend_nacm.c
+++ b/example/example_backend_nacm.c
@@ -89,9 +89,7 @@ nacm_statedata(clicon_handle h,
 }
 
 int
-plugin_start(clicon_handle h,
-	     int           argc,
-	     char        **argv)
+plugin_start(clicon_handle h)
 {
     return 0;
 }
diff --git a/example/example_netconf.c b/example/example_netconf.c
index e5f8fb37..acab6ef0 100644
--- a/example/example_netconf.c
+++ b/example/example_netconf.c
@@ -51,7 +51,7 @@
  * the main event loop is entered.
  */
 int
-plugin_start(clicon_handle h, int argc, char **argv)
+plugin_start(clicon_handle h)
 {
     return 0;
 }
diff --git a/example/example_restconf.c b/example/example_restconf.c
index c79d45f1..9a245d19 100644
--- a/example/example_restconf.c
+++ b/example/example_restconf.c
@@ -54,8 +54,8 @@ static const char Base64[] =
 static const char Pad64 = '=';
 
 /* Use http basic auth. Set by starting restonf with:
-   clixon_restconf ... -- -a
-*/
+ *   clixon_restconf ... -- -a
+ */
 static int basic_auth = 0;
 
 /* skips all whitespace anywhere.
@@ -298,29 +298,11 @@ restconf_client_rpc(clicon_handle h,
 }
 
 /*! Start example restonf plugin. Set authentication method
- * Arguments are argc/argv after --
- * Currently defined: -a  enable http basic authentication
- * @note There are three hardwired users andy, wilma and guest from RFC8341 A.1
  */
 int
-example_restconf_start(clicon_handle h,
-		       int           argc,
-		       char        **argv)
+example_restconf_start(clicon_handle h)
 {
-    int c;
-
-    clicon_debug(1, "%s argc:%d", __FUNCTION__, argc);
-    optind = 1;
-    opterr = 0;
-    while ((c = getopt(argc, argv, "a")) != -1){
-	switch (c) {
-	case 'a':
-	    basic_auth = 1;
-	    break;
-	default:
-	    break;
-	}
-    }
+    clicon_debug(1, "%s", __FUNCTION__);
     return 0;
 }
 
@@ -338,11 +320,31 @@ static clixon_plugin_api api = {
  * @param[in]  h    Clixon handle
  * @retval     NULL Error with clicon_err set
  * @retval     api  Pointer to API struct
+ * Arguments are argc/argv after --
+ * Currently defined: -a  enable http basic authentication
+ * @note There are three hardwired users andy, wilma and guest from RFC8341 A.1
  */
 clixon_plugin_api *
 clixon_plugin_init(clicon_handle h)
 {
+    int       argc; /* command-line options (after --) */
+    char    **argv = NULL;
+    char      c;
+    
     clicon_debug(1, "%s restconf", __FUNCTION__);
+    /* Get user command-line options (after --) */
+    if (clicon_argv_get(h, &argc, &argv) < 0)
+	return NULL;
+    opterr = 0;
+    optind = 1;
+    while ((c = getopt(argc, argv, "a")) != -1)
+	switch (c) {
+	case 'a':
+	    basic_auth = 1;
+	    break;
+	default:
+	    break;
+	}
     /* Register local netconf rpc client (note not backend rpc client) */
     if (rpc_callback_register(h, restconf_client_rpc, NULL, "urn:example:clixon", "client-rpc") < 0)
 	return NULL;
diff --git a/lib/clixon/clixon_plugin.h b/lib/clixon/clixon_plugin.h
index 5e9dc68c..9a84d601 100644
--- a/lib/clixon/clixon_plugin.h
+++ b/lib/clixon/clixon_plugin.h
@@ -98,12 +98,9 @@ typedef int (*clicon_upgrade_cb)(
  *   Backend see config_plugin.c
  */
 
-/* Called when backend started with cmd-line arguments from daemon call. 
- * Call plugin start functions with argc/argv multiple arguments.
- * Typically the argc/argv are the ones appearing after "--", eg
- * clicon_cli -f /etc/clicon.xml -- -a myopt
+/* Called when application started (eg after daemon call). 
  */
-typedef int (plgstart_t)(clicon_handle, int, char **); /* Plugin start */
+typedef int (plgstart_t)(clicon_handle); /* Plugin start */
 
 /* Called just before plugin unloaded. 
  */
@@ -141,7 +138,7 @@ typedef char *(cli_prompthook_t)(clicon_handle, char *mode);
  * Note that for STARTUP_ERR and _INVALID, running runs in failsafe mode
  * and startup contains the erroneous or invalid database.
  * The user should repair the startup and 
- * (1) restart he backend
+ * (1) restart the backend
  * (2) copy startup to candidate and commit.
  */
 enum startup_status{
@@ -237,7 +234,7 @@ clixon_plugin *clixon_plugin_find(clicon_handle h, char *name);
 
 int clixon_plugins_load(clicon_handle h, char *function, char *dir, char *regexp);
 
-int clixon_plugin_start(clicon_handle h, int argc, char **argv);
+int clixon_plugin_start(clicon_handle h);
 
 int clixon_plugin_exit(clicon_handle h);
 
diff --git a/lib/src/clixon_options.c b/lib/src/clixon_options.c
index 456b38a3..c98adc6a 100644
--- a/lib/src/clixon_options.c
+++ b/lib/src/clixon_options.c
@@ -1076,7 +1076,7 @@ clicon_argv_get(clicon_handle h,
     if (argv){
 	if ((p = hash_value(cdat, "argv", NULL)) == NULL)
 	    return -1;
-	*argv = *(char***)p;
+	*argv = (char**)p;
     }
     return 0;
 }
@@ -1099,15 +1099,18 @@ clicon_argv_set(clicon_handle h,
     int             retval = -1;
     clicon_hash_t  *cdat = clicon_data(h);
     char          **argvv = NULL;
-
+    size_t          len;
+    
     /* add space for null-termination and argv[0] program name */
-    if ((argvv = calloc(argc+2, sizeof(char*))) == NULL){
+    len = argc+2;
+    if ((argvv = calloc(len, sizeof(char*))) == NULL){
 	clicon_err(OE_UNIX, errno, "calloc");
 	goto done;
     }
     memcpy(argvv+1, argv, argc*sizeof(char*));
     argvv[0] = prgm;
-    if (hash_add(cdat, "argv", &argvv, sizeof(argvv))==NULL)
+    /* Note the value is the argv vector (which is copied) */
+    if (hash_add(cdat, "argv", argvv, len*sizeof(char*))==NULL) 
 	goto done;
     argc += 1;
     if (hash_add(cdat, "argc", &argc, sizeof(argc))==NULL)
diff --git a/lib/src/clixon_plugin.c b/lib/src/clixon_plugin.c
index 45b97e88..768b63c6 100644
--- a/lib/src/clixon_plugin.c
+++ b/lib/src/clixon_plugin.c
@@ -295,21 +295,11 @@ done:
 
 /*! Call plugin_start in all plugins
  * @param[in]  h       Clicon handle
- * @param[in]  argc    
- * @param[in]  argv
- * Call plugin start functions (if defined) with argc/argv multiple
- * arguments.
- * Typically the argc/argv are the ones appearing after "--", eg
- * clicon_cli -f /etc/clicon.xml -- -a myopt
- * In the example above argc=3 and
- * argv[0]: clicon_cli
- * argv[1]: -a
- * argv[2]: myopt
+ * Call plugin start functions (if defined)
+ * @note  Start functions used to have argc/argv. Use clicon_argv_get() instead
  */
 int
-clixon_plugin_start(clicon_handle h, 
-		    int           argc, 
-		    char        **argv)
+clixon_plugin_start(clicon_handle h)
 {
     clixon_plugin *cp;
     int            i;
@@ -319,8 +309,7 @@ clixon_plugin_start(clicon_handle h,
 	cp = &_clixon_plugins[i];
 	if ((startfn = cp->cp_api.ca_start) == NULL)
 	    continue;
-	//	optind = 0;
-	if (startfn(h, argc, argv) < 0) {
+	if (startfn(h) < 0) {
 	    clicon_debug(1, "plugin_start() failed");
 	    return -1;
 	}